For more information, please see our If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. Because when your engine has to take in air forcefully it automatically means there isn't enough surrounding your engine and that again means that air density and therefor air resistance must be pretty low too. 1Altitude requirement 2Orbit 3Speed, range, and altitude 4Flight duration 5Flight profiles 5.1Ballistic missiles 5.2Tourist flights 5.3Scientific experiments 5.4Sub-orbital transportation 6Notable uncrewed sub-orbital spaceflights 7Crewed sub-orbital spaceflights 8Future of crewed sub-orbital spaceflight 9See also 10References If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. So Pvt. If you upgrade to the panther (or get one on a contract) that engine can get you much higher. So that means that even if you are inside the atmosphere but still orbital (such as during aerobraking), your science will not count as "Inside the atmosphere", For example, orbiting Kerbin above 250km altitude, your science is counted as "In Space High over Kerbin." By climbing, you reduce drag, exponentially with altitude. You cannot paste images directly. If the wings are flat and your plane steadily loses altitude in level flight at a given speed (as most designs will by default), it means you either need to pitch up slightly, increasing the angle of attack and keeping your vertical velocity at 0 by flying up slightly to compensate for the pull of gravity that lift isn't compensating for. 1 Pod outside the level 3 VAB. You cannot paste images directly. Editing Kerbal Space Program save files for KSO, Rasterpropmonitor for Kerbal Space Program. Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. Ksp engine altitudes I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. . That's just a guess, though-- perhaps someone more familiar with FAR could weigh in.). high-1 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program By: miklkit This is the current version. Pvt. It is stable but can not maintain altitude. This page was last edited on 22 December 2019, at 20:54. Thanks. - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. You are simply running out of atmosphere (i.e. Download (104.45 MiB) License: CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 Game Version: 1.8.1 Downloads: 371,115 Author: blackheart612 Mod Website: Forum Thread Support this mod: Donate Followers: 626 Outdated Mod This mod is not known to work with the latest version of Kerbal Space Program. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Things that work at low altitude don't work so well up high and the plane ends up going up and down while slowly losing speed until it can't maintain altitude anymore. Immediately starting rocket engines at full throttle turned out to make most of my aircrafts totally unstable, turning them up gradually worked way better. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. I recommend using a solid rocket booster (or 2 or 5) to you get you the altitude and then launch a small rocket powered plane. It only takes a minute to sign up. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. Unfortunately, most space plane designs are impossible (or at the very least impractical) at your current tech level. Your decreased flight time means you probably won't make it to your location. Challenges EDIT: Essentially, make like an SR-71, if an SR-71 didn't have cooling problems limiting it to Mach 3.4. Sideslip handling. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? What you should be concerned about is atmospheric drag, and that's minimized by high-altitude flight. Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. I followed a similar strategy. TLDR: You need parts you don't have to make a plane that flies that high. Most SSTO space planes would be able to accomplish this easily. Kerbal Space Program 2 . Or try using SRBs instead. Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? No, I think it's correct, unless I've got a brain fart going, here. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? Knowing how to design these types of planes make jumping in to SSTO design very easy as there are only a few minor changes that need to be made.Music Credits:1st Song: \"Elephants\" - YouTube Audio Library2nd Song: \"Hot Heat\" - YouTube Audio Library3rd Song: \"Echoes\" - Kasbo - https://soundcloud.com/k-sboWhat game is this? Basically you just need to fiddle with it and try some test flights. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. Turbojets are so ridiculously efficient that it doesn't really matter. I'm in career mode and got all groups of the 45-science-cost level, except Flight Control, and additionally have Electrics, Heavy Rocketry and Fuel Systems. KSP Quick Guides: High Altitude Design and Flying - Stock v.23 Stoober AK 3.32K subscribers Subscribe 21K views 8 years ago This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar. It flames out at 25,000. At altitude the nose goes up and down until it goes out of control. Personally, I don't enjoy survey contracts on Kerbin. If not, please explain why, which I know you have no problem doing! Approximately 12km up the main engines stop providing enough thrust to maintain the climb, so it's time to switch to rocket mode. Upload or insert images from URL. Clear editor. - "In Space Low" means your craft is inside the "Space Border" altitude and in an orbital path. You need to do it with what you've got. Either of the two speeds are to be avoided. Air Flow + max. (Disclaimer: I've never used FAR myself; all of the above is based on my experience with stock aerodynamics. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? Orbiting is the most fun one: the higher the orbit, the less speed you need to maintain to stay in orbit, *and* the less air there is, so that's a double-whammy in terms of reducing fuel consumption. With only panthers unlocked I might add. I'm in career mode (have the turbofan engine) and trying to get some science readings for a mission at a high altitude. This causes the body of your plane to generate additional drag. Also, while you mentioned the TJs most efficient altitude is ~ 5km (I'm not sure, but lets assume it's true), you need to realize that the drag you're getting at that altitude is going to wreck any efficiency gains. Now I have a plane that will fly around the world at an altitude of the low-20s. Ideally, you'll want to avoid these contracts until you get the High-Altitude Flight tech node and the improved jet engine that comes with it. In my case, it brought me to 20km up at a 45-degree angle, but it is probably not optimal. Use the reaction wheel to hold your attitude slightly nose down as you float down and you can guide yourself like a paraglider. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? Watch out for your SAS if you're running batteries without a jet for a long time. You'll notice that usually your prograde marker is slightly below your pitch. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? However, I've failed to build a vehicle to achieve this (without a hundred retries). If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. The Inland Kerbal Space Center itself, being in effect the old Kerbal Space Center from 0.2. I checked the wiki before I wrote my question, it seems I overread this paragraph Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. Grichmann's answer has been the most reliable way I've found to complete these missions. Been a while since I've flown stock*, but I've heard that, for maximum efficiency, you want one turbojet for every 7.5 tons, and about four ram intakes for each turbojet. Unfortunately, there's no simple rule to tell you what the angle needs to be when you're building the plane-- it depends on lots of variables, such as your weight, drag, intended cruising altitude, intended cruising speed. Any advices for building a vehicle for this task? I wasn't expecting so many excellent answers! From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. ksp high altitude planebad bunny tour 2022 tickets ksp high altitude plane. I don't have any exact numbers for you, but you can right-click an engine in flight and it will show both current and optimal airflow, which should hopefully let you work out the best altitude. Then it is "In Space Low over Mun.". Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. Hello there. This means it is better to have excessive amounts of oxygen than not to. Remembering the FW TA152 and the U2 I put long wings on it and while its turn rate makes an airliner look like a fighter plane it is stable enough at 19000m. There are no requirements as far as size or power are concerned, as the AI Pilot is capable of flying pretty much anything - from tiny scout planes to oversized freight craft. I currently have a contract where I'm asked to take crew reports at certain spots on Kerbal at an altitude of 18,000m. Best way to get down into thicker air and land is to perform what dogfighters called a 'Split-S'. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. Your previous content has been restored. This way control surface max deflection can be programmed by an aircraft designer to make . Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. Keep in mind that wheesley engine's performance decreases significantly as the altitude increases. They will someday, but they don't now. Paste as plain text instead, Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. But you'll need to unlock: Which cost 300 science. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. At this point the plane plummets, but as it goes deeper into the atmosphere, it regains pitch authority, and at 10km it's enough to regain control and turn it around for a safe landing. I generally don't fuss with AoI unless I'm making a long range cruiser. That would argue for going as high as possible, as slow as possible, but apart from drag you also have to fight gravity. 1.) I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: while they are superior for low-speed, low-altitude operations, they become deadweight at hypersonic velocities. You arent doing anything wrong. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? One of my planes is small and agile, and can easily enough glide to a safe landing even if the rockets consume all the fuel. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Why do many companies reject expired SSL certificates as bugs in bug bounties? So if you want to make a plane go as fast as possible, you want to minimise both angle of attack and angle of incidence necessary to sustain level flight at your target speed and altitude. Information Changelog Stats This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar at high altitudes! It was meant for low altitude flight. Secondly don't think of engines working better at different altitudes, think of them working better with different air intake quantities. I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. if you just go into the SPH, slap together some parts like Legos, and go-- is to attach them with zero AoA. @SaintWacko's advice is probably the most practical. Mounting a time-limited rescue mission for kerbal inbound to Kerbin. Double your speed, you need twice as much fuel. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. The Panther engine can hold 19,000 steady and oscillates around 20,000. Another problem is jet engines stealing fuel from the rockets' tanks - you may want to pump the fuel manually (requires an R&D centre upgrade) or add some pipes between them. Be sure to have enough intakes (I think maximum efficiency in stock is 1 ramjet intake per ~2 tons of plane, though that is aesthetically ridiculous), and if you're still running short of intake air, you can dip down a bit to speed up and get to denser air. Should i add a larger wing area for higher lift? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. Your link has been automatically embedded. Redoing the align environment with a specific formatting, Trying to understand how to get this basic Fourier Series. The stratospheric region, where temperature rises as altitude increases, spans the region between the altitudes of 10 km and 22 km. Isn't that backwards snark? Content titles and body; Content titles only Designing a High Altitude Jet | KSP: Making Space Home Mike Aben 24.8K subscribers Join Subscribe 85 Share 3.4K views 1 year ago Ep. Powered by Invision Community. Under some circumstances, you may want to reduce the engine gimbal range or disable it altogether, particularly when flying at high speeds (e.g. The other one I stay around 6000 meters. Because of the exponential nature of the rocket equationthe orbital rocket needs to be considerably bigger. When I say ", You know you've nailed it correctly if, when you're in level flight, your. - Inside the atmosphere works the same way, except you need to be on an suborbital trajectory. Thankyou all, I now reckon I have a much better understanding of the engines, hopefully that'll translate to better aircraft. Main goals: Auto-trimming. air) that high up. Alternatively, you can assign the afterburner toggle (labelled "switch mode") to an action group if you wish to activate it with a hotkey. This works, but it's not optimal. Have a plane that ditches its wings and rockets up to 18km once you reach the right point. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Powered by Invision Community, Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane, I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: [] at hypersonic velocities. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com, Press J to jump to the feed. Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane Do you know how many intakes/turbojet are needed to run in the regime you described? I didn't succeed with his design, though; I always ended up having somehow unstable airplanes. As said above, the Wheesley is specifically designed as a low altitude engine. But my guess is that these same general principles would probably apply to FAR, and that all that would change would be the numbers involved. Very cool. The J-404 "Panther" Afterburning Turbofan is a jet engine added in version 1.0.5. Your previous content has been restored. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. high-2 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. This thread is quite old. Evidence. Press J to jump to the feed. Your airspeed is mostly limited by terminal velocity; you can go much faster if you climb a little higher. Maneuver node plans don't take drag into account, so you'll have to overshoot quite a bit to compensate. So if you replace the turbos with basic jets, you will have more thrust from the ground up, and your vessel will weigh slightly less. I was hoping that the new intakes would give it the added altitude. Really. 101 kPa 1 atm Scale Height 5000 m Atmospheric Height 69 077.553 m 1.010-6 atm Minimum Temprature -40.19 C 232.96 K Maximum Temprature 20 C 293.15 K Oxygen Present Yes Contents 1 Kerbin 2 Topography 3 Kerbal Space Center 4 Atmosphere 4.1 The Troposphere 4.2 The Stratosphere 4.3 The Thermosphere 4.4 The Exosphere 5 The Kerbin System 5.1 The Mun 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Even if the air is thin, you can still put out plenty of power if you are shoving enough in with raw speed. I've been finding it difficult to build a jet that can fly over 15km alt. rev2023.3.3.43278. I also had problems with a high altitude plane until I decided to follow the K.I.S.S. Check out the website and try the game out for yourself :Dhttps://kerbalspaceprogram.com/ If you've attached them to your fuselage with zero AoA, what that means is that when you fly, you're going to have to have the entire plane pitched slightly above in order to generate lift. It is somewhat slow but very steady in flight. If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any. Only the fuel tanks attached to rockets have any oxidiser in them. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? Paste as plain text instead, General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, Stratus-V Cylindrified Monopropellant Tank, Kerbodyne KR-2L+ "Rhino" Liquid Fuel Engine, LFB KR-1x2 "Twin-Boar" Liquid Fuel Engine, T-1 Toroidal Aerospike "Dart" Liquid Fuel Engine, S1 SRB-KD25k "Kickback" Solid Fuel Booster, IX-6315 "Dawn" Electric Propulsion System, AE-FF1 Airstream Protective Shell (1.25m), AE-FF3 Airstream Protective Shell (3.75m), PB-NUK Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=J-404_%22Panther%22_Afterburning_Turbofan&oldid=95515. Make sure you've angled your wings up slightly so that you provide enough lift for a 0 angle of attack at top speed. My plane has turbojets and lots of fuel, but I am wondering what the optimal way to fly is. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). Cheers again fellas. You will find that when you're flying around, will always be slightly below the crosshairs on the navball. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. They always seem to lose power at about 15km, but I'm wondering if there's something I can do to fix that. So long as there's only one high-altitude measurement to take, you should be able to complete a whole set of 3-4 in one flight. Though I'm still working on learning to be better at space planes. alternatively, combine a liquid fuel rocket into your plane. Hopefully this will be helpful to you. with a thrust vectoring range of only 3 degrees. A little while back I spent a long time trying to circumnavigate Kerbin on the least liquid fuel possible (i posted the record to the sub: 254 units of fuel. When added to a plane it allows tuning of the controls vs speed/altitude/G load/other factors. So I'm pretty darn new to KSP, and my career has barely gotten started, and the jobs for crew observations seem to dominate I only seem to be able to make planes that can fly a bit below that altitude and then temporary rise to it. KSP doesn't care (much) about aspect ratio; the total lift is the same regardless of configuration. First is thrust; the higher you get, the lower the thrust your engines deliver. All the information you could want to know about science, including the altitudes for each celestial body, and what altitudes a given experiment works on are available at: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science. Thats my problem right now. Technically, any rocket engine is also a jet engine as it forms a high-speed jet of reaction mass. The thrust of jets (turbo or otherwise) depends on airspeed: basics deliver more thrust at low speeds, while turbojets only really come into their own when you fly very fast (which also means flying very high, 20km and over). FBW uses three controllers - pitch, roll and yaw. Yes. How do you get out of a corner when plotting yourself into a corner. Originally posted by lord bird: yep thats right jool has a surface. What are the units of measure used in Kerbal Space Program? What are the minimum altitudes for each warp level? All rights reserved. Ep. Is it even possible? She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. I'd almost expect it to work better in stock since infini-gliders can be done. The more successful the flights, the more successful the space program is. The Kerbal Space Program subreddit. So, to correct " is below crosshairs", what you need to do is to add a little AoA to the wings. How to make a loop for linear actuator in Kerbal Space Program, Breaking Ground. Using indicator constraint with two variables, Is there a solution to add special characters from software and how to do it. Sustained flight at over 20km requires at a minimum the Panther in Afterburning mode. That's sub-optimal, because having the fuselage pitched like that means it'll have more drag than it otherwise would have. I also added a parachute and decoupler since I find it too hard to correctly land this thing yet ;-) I managed to land in the water once, though. The easiest "default" way to build a plane in KSP-- i.e. Incidentally, for these speeds and altitudes, ordinary jets are the better choice. KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys Mike Aben 28.5K subscribers Subscribe 7.7K views 7 years ago Day 114: A busy day at the KSC with three missions, the highlights being the launch. Right now, my big, fat plane has trouble breaking 10 km altitude and 200 m/s forward speed (largely due to its payload). - Insane lift to weight didn't help. ksp high altitude plane. Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? In this case lots of fuel is the wrong approach, I can get more than half way around Kerbin on 2 cans of Jet Fuel and a turbojet if I glide most of it. Grichman's answer got me in the right direction. Its an approximation missing someelements. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. It is usually best for initial designs to be based on logic and real-world physics and then be prepared to experiment with non-logical alternatives for optimisation. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. At about 400-500m/s (~15km), the two engines are even. 2/3 (KSP 1.11.2) - YouTube I break out the Mk2 parts and Panther engines to build a better jet that can go higher and faster. Subscribe -. The idea is to slow the plane to a stall above your landing spot the pop the parachute. Jets drop thrust at higher altitude and speed, but also drop . To get there, you're going to want to climb at the fastest rate you can manage to 18-20 km, at which point you should mostly level off and start accelerating horizontally. Air Flow: Air Flow represents with how much force air passes the turbine (notice: different amounts of air at the same speed equals in different amounts of force!). If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. Pretty often, the tail "wiggled" and/or the plane became totally unstable when I fired the rocket boosters. AoA itself refers to the angle of the wing (or the whole plane if the AoI is 0)relative to the airflow. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Trying to do something without the right part is long and difficult path. You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. even stranger is that the surface is textured. Strictly speaking this optimisation is unnecessary, but it can win you a bit of range. If your using NEAR/FAR, once you get high and fast, kill the engine and glide to save fuel. Then I increase throttle until about 2/3 or even full, climbing with a high inclination (it can also go straight up). Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. Whiplash is the engine you would want to use on a plane meant to go 20km. It may take some practice to hit your target area this way, because you'll be picking up additional horizontal speed, and thus it's possible to under or overshoot. Thrust means that slower-is-better no longer applies: now, slower means less drag but more gravity, so there's a tradeoff (which I'm not going to carefully calculate for you, because it's hard). Delta-V is the velocity change necessary to perform orbital maneuvers. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. I'm trying to build a high altitude plane and have found out that the rules are different. probably the easiest place to land in the system as terminal velocity is survivable for a craft less kerman. You also need to be going very fast to generate adequate lift at high altitudes and unlike the real U-2, you don't need to fear about overspeeding and destroying the plane. As you found out, it basically konks out at 15km. When you are surrounded by plenty of air there will of course be no need to suck in air artificially but the higher you get the less dense the air around you becomes and in order to make sure that your engines have enough oxygen to burn the fuel it needs to suck air in forcefully.